Talking Horses Thursday August 26th 2021

The strong form of our Hitlist Napsters continues with Rakib landing Woodlands Charm (5/2 BOG), Polar Cloud winning at 5/4 (advised) for David, Bellacaiocaio winning for our overseas specialist Dirty Northerner and Primo’s Comet, Paul Romain’s NB winning at an advised 7/2. Paul’s nap painfully beaten a nose in the 2.30; he had doubled it with his winner too. The Steelman had slightly better luck than Paul, with his nap and his NB winning – Primo’s Comet (nap) and Oso Rapido 3/1. Brilliant work, all. Thank you.

My naps struggle on, though I’m hoping for better things today with Dulas in the 6.40 at 9/1.

If I’ve missed anyone, please give me a shout via the August Winners thread.

As ever, please leave your naps/tips by making a comment below. All welcome, especially newcomers; just enter a name when asked so we know who is who. No prizes, but it’s good fun here among some seasoned punters, most of whom spent years commenting at the Guardian on the original Talking Horses forum, which has now been heavily cut back.

If you tip a winner, please use the Winners thread to highlight your result and we’ll put you on the Hitlist next day. There is a Winners thread for each month.

We also have a Lounge thread for general chat, though as a forum we are a bit limited to what WordPress, our host here, provides as far as structure goes.

Thanks for looking in. Good luck with your bets today, but please bear in mind that this is meant to be ‘fun’. There are many wise heads posting tips here and we haven’t yet gone a day without somebody tipping a winner. But never bet more than you can afford to lose. Small stakes can still produce wide smiles.

All the best


  1. I’m playing away again Joe. All are at Deauville. The nap is SHAIKHA, evens in the 5.25, with TWILIGHT 5/2 in the 3.06 and CILANTRO 11/10 in the 3.40.
    In Ireland, at Tipp, I like HISTORY and URBAN BEAT 9/4 and 15/8, 4.50 and 6.30 – the latter in the next best.


  2. APOB has sent the Keystone Cops in to action at Tipperary today.
    I include the 2.8 million yearling History in the 16.50. who might have had nice legs when she was in the Auction Ring but shame about the race.
    I will sit today out.
    Tipping a nap means you have nothing to loose as only winning naps get included with no negative marking for losing naps.
    However none of us want to loose the last vestige of dignity and I am waiting for the Curragh card tomorrow.


    1. I’m inclined to agree with you, my “napping “ in the last week has been embarrassing so I too might give it a skip today. The only problem is that it’s like a drug, keeps pulling me back and I’m thinking “this one will bring me back to the big time “…..

      I can’t bring myself to tip a Lissen nag, one of the Elder Childer’s maybe and definitely not the Younger Childer….if it was anyone else’s child he’d still be sweeping out stables day in day out…..

      Back later , maybe!


    2. This Tipp maiden has been farmed by APOB in its three runnings, all of which he has won with fillies that turned out to be nothing special (I’m being polite). With her price tag and name, History probably has ideas above her station, like the girl who has got into Roedean but finds herself in the dunces’ class.

      The Aga Khan/Murtagh filly looks the one to be on.


  3. Carlisle 14:10 Billy Roberts 12/1
    Carlisle 15:15 Impeller 8/1
    Carlisle 16:25 Retirement Beckons 8/1
    E/W Patent
    Last couple of tips have been dismal…Here’s hoping for a rebound


  4. I am not clear about the purpose of this page? It appears to be solely about napping? The Lounge is hardly used. This does not replicate the old Guardian TH where there were comments of all sorts on the main page. No doubt this was found to be tedious by some. I am sure many prefer the naps only format, but I do not. Good luck to all. Thanks to Joe for all his efforts.


      1. This is a fair point Quai, but things take a little time to grow. I think we all like the Naps activity as this always created good comments on The Guardian’s Talking Horses blog. The Lounge is available for all kinds of topics and I see that football has been discussed. For what it’s worth I think the main page should be for racing discussion, as you point out, and for the naps.
        I’ll contribute something now that may be worthy of comment.


        1. I will also add that Joe did invite us to contribute a blog subject some weeks ago. My thoughts have been centred on the syndicate.


      2. I reckon you could start a conversation here on anything you like, should you like. Joe strikes me as a benign overlord, and I’ve certainly seen a few digressions from napping. Man, all this talk of napping is making me sleepy.


    1. You make an excellent point, Quai. I did ask that this page be kept to naps/tips at the start. It was a clumsy solution to try to cut my work. At that time, you might recall, I was checking every post every evening for tips/naps to highlight on the ‘Hitlist’ next day. Posters, understandably, would drop in a nap or tip at various points during what might be a long post. This meant me reading through every single one.

      The problem was solved by the suggestion (by David, I think?) that we have a monthly Winners Thread that posters could use to tick off their own successes. This gave me a simple task in finding the Hitlist folk for next day. I should at that point have withdrawn my earlier request to keep this page to naps/tips.

      Anyway, Quai is spot on; much of the fun of The Guardian original was that anything could be brought up racing or not, sporting or not. It would be great if we could get that sort of mix here on this daily page, with the tips as an aside, and I’ll amend the daily blog to reflect this.

      I don’t want to make rules. It’s my blog only in respect of I’ve adapted it to cover what was needed short term. It is not mine in the sense that I make the rules. But I would suggest that the battle-inducing duo politics and religion are – in general – avoided. I say in general because they will inevitably crop up, especially with a left-leaning core of posters. But I think it would be unwise for any long discussions on either subject taking place here on the main page. Those would be fine in the Lounge.

      Also, no swearing would be a good general rule, I think. The Guardian allowed it, understandably; many people deem it essential to convey deeply held beliefs or emotions. But The Guardian also had a team of refs to hand out red cards; we don’t.

      Going back to the tips and naps … it started as a fun idea to encourage posters to look in every day. This is not a profit-making exercise seeking more and more ‘eyeballs’, but nor did I want it to be drifting on the bleached prairies of the internet like an old tumbleweed. I think there’s a good balance now and there’s no obligation (never was) to tip every day. Do it when you feel like it. Or comment on anything without tipping or napping; it’s up to you. The Hitlist too is purely for fun. I think it’s not only nice for tipsters to be lauded for the hard work they put in (God knows, they suffer enough drawbacks in betting), but it helps readers develop a feel for the kind of tipster they’re attracted to. And this facet of tipsters in form that I’ve touched on from time to time interests me. At some point, maybe after a year, an analysis of the Winners Threads might well reveal some fascinating facts.

      I’m open to your thoughts, as with anything I write here.

      All the best.


      1. I’m sorry Joe, but that no swearing rule is bollocks 🙂

        Only joking, I’m off to confession to confess for my sins (three Hail Mary’s and a couple Our Father’s sounds about right)


      2. Quai,
        I can’t say I have felt restricted in meandering away from a subject (Horse Racing) of which I know nothing on this blog.
        There are serious Tipsters here and they generally like to be brief and terse.
        I agree with Joe that I was taught that once you swear you are showing a lack of your vocabulary.
        I read many Red Cards on the Guardian before they disappeared and although I believe crass comments should be allowed to stand on their own merit and be exposed to the ridicule they deserve I can understand the Moderators concern with libel laws even if pigs will fly before JS takes legal action for being called a cheat (by one vehement Poster in particular) or Appleby just by pointing out a known factual association (one of my RCs).
        Most RCs were an over response to a Post from someone who believed that Horse Racing was unethical and I don’t believe that debate can really do itself justice on a community like this.


        1. I know that you have carried on as normal.

          I recollect the JS allegation which as far as I could see was a sincerely held view by that person who subsequently left the TH as a result of the red cards. The red cards that I got were related to comments about the journalist concerned (not in TH). I remember one about a restaurant review where I was red carded on the grounds that it had produced a lot of unhelpful responses (I insisted on an explanation). So I was held responsible for others’ lack of control. I had had the temerity to write about the reviewer’s description of the eating of dead animals which (I think) got up the reviewer’s nose, so he had me “rubbed out like a soupstain”.

          You say,

          “Most RCs were an over response to a Post from someone who believed that Horse Racing was unethical and I don’t believe that debate can really do itself justice on a community like this.”

          Why not? Surely just the place for such a discussion. I know there are people on here who recognise that there is an unethical element in the sport, but they just live with it, as one lives with so many contradictions in life.


  5. I think Mr Dawe also scored his nap so a good day all round for everyone! Today’s nap : Loch Lein, 11/2, 18.00 Tipp. Group 3 contest where the favourite is JPoB’s Pretty Gorgeous, trainers top 2yo’s from last year have beenpretty awful this season though. Sod’s Law dictates it’ll win this easier contest but the Nap won a Listed race in France recently for Jessie Harrington in similar conditions and may be on the improve.
    Next Best: Dha Leath, 6/1, 7.30 Tipp. A weak race where the jockey booking of DBM ( I think he’s mentioned enough that people can abbreviate his name now!) takes the eye.


  6. I have been thinking of two things this morning. First, the continuation of the restriction for jockeys only being able to ride at one meeting per day. Secondly, the occurrence of my naps and other interests in France and Ireland, as opposed to the U.K.

    I believe the two may be related. There is too much low grade racing in the U.K., driven by serving the bookmaking industry and not the horse racing industry. This has to change. In both Ireland and France, racing is seen as an industry and particularly in France where it comes under the Ministry of Agriculture – this is why they raced earlier in lockdown, for the benefit of an industry. Here, racing seems to be a ‘service provider’ for the bookies.

    I would argue that a maximum of three meetings take place a day, distributed on a sensible geographical basis. I would also favour the jockey restriction remaining, but with more races at these meetings, such as 8-10 a day.


    1. Just to be contrary DN, doesn’t low grade racing suit low grade players in the racing industry (smaller stables etc rather than the Obrien/Gosden/Mullins legions? Yeah it probably helps the bookmaking industry and is the main driving force but would a return to two meetings a day help anybody? Dilton will probably know the economics of it much better than me but wouldn’t that mean less horses in training and the end of many smaller fish? Happy to be put right if I’ve got it completely wrong. ps I am being contrary because in general I think there are too many meetings on various days.


      1. Good point Mickle and I want the lower grade racing to be taken care of better, with opportunities for the smaller outfits. There’s just too much of it and I believe it needs reviewing and developing. May North and South specialist fixtures to cut down on travel?


          1. One meeting for Sheffield up to and including Scotland and one for the southern counties below. Move them east and west to the courses to help also.


  7. Good morning all,

    My NAP today goes in the 19.10 at Lingfield Park: Anything Today @ 5/1 last night.
    My NB goes in the 15.50 at Carlisle: Mackenzie Rose @11/2

    These I have combined in EW trebles and doubles with:
    13.45 Chelmsford: Silver Kitten
    14.55 : Wadacre Gogo
    15.15 Carlisle : Bowman
    15.30 Chelmsford : Toussarock
    16.00 Chelmsford : Fandabidozi
    17.40 Lingfield : Marks Bear

    Well done to all of yesterday’s winners!



    Syndicate 2 is currently being developed and a good number of members of Syndicate 1 have expressed an interest in joining the second operation. Dilton has been working on the potential horse and we can now recommend that this will be on the basis of a 6-12 month Free Lease to the syndicate with no initial capital outlay, but with an option to purchase.

    Once we have something lined up I will post details of the training, racing and associated costs to Syndicate 1 members and to this blog for anyone else who may be interested.

    One question – AW flat or NH?


    1. DN, that’s a good question as to what type of horse. Personally, I’m not that fussed about AW racing, I hardly ever watch it but at least it can probably run all through the 12 month lease period.

      If we go for a Flat horse on turf I suppose it won’t run over the winter months and would we run a NH horse thru the summer jumping season ? Also, NH horse more likely to get injured.

      It’s a tricky one. My cop out answer would be I’ll go with the majority view.


        1. Yeah, whilst I like a day out Flat racing like York last week I am naturally inclined to the jumpers. Annual Member at Cheltenham so that probably says it all. Let’s see what other folk think.


    2. DN, as much as I’d like the heart to rule the head and say NH, surely the best option for us as a Syndicate and the horse itself (which we would have a financial and emotional interest in) is flat


  9. Can I just say that I think QuaiDB has got a point and it would be, imo, more interesting if we also discussed other racing & gambling topics on here besides just tips (as good as they are !)


    1. How about just shoehorning the side topics in with the tips if it’s on this page and then developing the convo on the lounge thread if it’s worth it. I imagine it’ll get confusing for passers-by to Joe’s blog otherwise!


  10. i think today can be TashGeel in the 3.15 for the nap at Carlisle. There are quite regular diversions to other topics on this thread – usually driven by the names of horses or some such – it just depends on the day really. Some days there’s 15 to 20 tips that are nap related – others 50 or 60 that cover a wider spectrum. Its fairly organic i think. The naps are a useful constant.


  11. My best bet today is Do No Wrong (5.50 Sedgefield) at around 15/8. Justin Landy can do no wrong himself at the moment, and has managed to land a lenient mark for this ex-Irish horse’s handicap debut. He went into many notebooks when running second behind one of Sneezy’s Cartmel raiders on his UK debut, and that horse has gone on to land a hat trick of wins over hurdles. DNW has plenty of Irish point experience without winning one, but his last race between the flags for Gary McKeever was his best. Running a close third behind two dead-heaters, he beat a horse of Colin Bowe’s that won a Bellewstown bumper yesterday doing handsprings.


  12. I forgot to claim until Rakid pointed it out that SUMMERTIME ROMANCE was a winner yesterday. I thought I had napped another nag (SILKEN PETALS 6th of 7), but fortunately only backed SUMMERTIME ROMANCE. Her along with Rakib’s Woodland Charmer and DNs/Steelman’s Primo’s Comet led to a good day. Only losing bet was Embour beaten close home.

    Staying my side of the Atlantic today the nap today is SHENDAM running in the largest tax haven in the world at Delaware Park (20:15 I think). Horse originally owned by the Aga Khan and raced in France. Won last time over 11F so today’s marathon distance of 12F should prove no problem. Ridden by the next Irad Ortiz Jr, Horacio Karamanos, I’m hoping that like George Washington crossing the Delaware River he will conquer all before him.

    As a completely unnecessary aside the prize money for this allowance race at a 3rd division racetrack is $28K.


    1. I think you’re heaping unnecessary pressure on young Horacio’s shoulders, JD… I’m assuming he’s young because I’ve never heard of him but he could equally be an old hand at the Delaware track for all I know. Will he emulate Washington or his near namesake Admiral Nelson -who, of course, was noted for his triumphing over Nap(oleon) rather than triumphing with them- and will Race 5 at Delaware on the 26th August be remembered in History (bdumtssh) just as the Battle of Trafalgar? May it not cost any of us an arm or a leg…


  13. I recall (with the help of my traker) that Richard Fahey said he had Hong Kong Harry ready for Ascot but he didn’t get in. Lingfield 6.40pm. He’s carrying the extra burden of my nap now.


  14. The 6.30 Tipperary is a very good race…. NAP is URBAN BEAT, 7/4 or so (Frenetic is rated 2 lbs inferior but receives 7lbs under the terms of the race so could be the big danger).

    NB is CAROLUS MAGNUS , Lingfield 6.40, 6/1 as I scrawl , A Balding’s only runner on the card.


    1. Ah yes, the Abergwaun Stakes. Stand by for widespread mispronunciation of Abergwuan, the Welsh name for Fishguard.


  15. QuaiDB, well done, think you have raised a really valid point (as is borne out by the subsequent comnents). Hope you pop back in to re-read to see what you have started / prompted (and I mean that in a good sense, curiosity killed the cat and all that – nothing to do with the beret headed 80’s boy band). I’d be more than happy to chat on a wider variety of topics (don’t let that put you off 🙂 ) as I can’t tip my bloody hat in comparison to the many sage judges we have on here. But there is a genuinely good crowd so don’t do a runner just yet.


  16. Jamie – Thanks. I was being honest in my earlier comment, though it was somewhat blunt. I have been around for quite some time, so I do know the “genuinely good crowd”, indeed with some of whom I have gone fifteen rounds with on more than one occasion (metaphorical boxing gloves). I am in the syndicate so there is little chance of an “escape” just yet.


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