Talking Horses Sunday September 5th 2021

It’s good to see Alan back on the Hitlist landing his nap Mondammej at 6/1. Cracker to return with, Alan. Well done.

David in fine form too with 2 winners: Rhythm a Dancer at 8/11 and Present And Counting at 15/8.Nice work, David.

Though Mickle’s nap went down, he named Chalk Steam as ‘banker material EW at 7/1” and it won nicely. Well played, Mickle.

If I’ve missed anyone, please give me a shout via the September Winners thread.

The blog’s nap today is Great Ambassador in the 3.15 at 5/2.

As ever, please leave your naps/tips by making a comment below. All welcome, especially newcomers; just enter a name when asked so we know who is who. No prizes, but it’s good fun here among some seasoned punters, most of whom spent years commenting at The Guardian on the original Talking Horses forum, which has now been heavily cut back.

If you tip a winner, please use the Winners thread to highlight your result and we’ll put you on the Hitlist next day. There is a Winners Thread for each month.

What This Blog Is For

As mentioned above this long-running Steeplechasing blog was adapted in a hurry when The Guardian announced they were cutting back on their (usually) daily Talking Horses section. Many punters had gathered there over the years to exchange ideas and fancies. Part of the adapting we had to do at the start of this blog was restricting this daily main article to tips/naps, while we found our feet regarding house rules, moderation and stuff like that.

We are now in a position to open this main daily article to all subjects. It can be very enjoyable when something is latched onto by our knowledgeable, quick-witted posters as they indulge in wordplay and jousting. We still want tips of course, from those who want to tip. It’s by no means an obligation.

If you do post a tip/nap, just include it with whatever subject you are discussing, preferably at the foot of your post. So long as you remember to come back after a winner and put the details of that win in the monthly Winners Thread, then we can include you on the Hitlist in the next day’s main article.

General guidance: No swearing, please. We’re not prudes, it’s just that there is wide scope in the swearword lexicon and we do not have moderators (and hope we’ll never need them). Also, please keep discussions on politics and religion to The Lounge section, though brief references to these subjects in the main article are not forbidden.

Thanks for looking in. If you are betting, especially if you follow our tipsters, good luck with your bets, but please bear in mind that this is meant to be ‘fun’. There are many wise heads posting tips here and we haven’t yet gone a day without somebody tipping a winner. But never bet more than you can afford to lose. Small stakes can still produce wide smiles.

All the best


  1. Obviously all eyes on Longchamp today.
    The Prix du Prince d’Orange (King Billy’s title came from France and not Holland hence the Race name) has evolved over the years in distance and it’s timing in the Calendar but it is a who’s who of the great and the good.
    Today’s running is not so good.
    I like to back German Horses running in France in September and I will do an e w. double on the P. Schiergen trained Lord Charming in the 13.33 Prix du Prince d’Orange at 17/2 and Novemba in the Moulin at 14.48 at 33/1.
    I will take on Baaeed today in the Moulin.
    8/15 for a Horse who is probably the real deal and has a Trainer/Jockey partnership that really seem to get things right? This is his first G1.
    In a field of 6, 4 have won G1s and the 5th was a G1 runner-up.
    It will be a tactical French race and his number is marked.
    Snow Lantern comes to win all her races and I can’t ask more than that. She will challenge and I am doing a reverse forecast with her and Novemba in the 14.48 at Longchamp as my nap.


    1. Really or rarely? The latter makes more sense if you’re opposing. I think Baaeed has the talent to win this one however it’s run- and Aidan running a couple usually ensures it’s run truly while it’s still a smallish field so hard to see him getting blocked. Someone will have to have bewitched Crowley (using the powers of his ancestor against him!) to make him muck this up, though I agree Snow Lantern is the one who would benefit. 8/15 won’t be everyone’s cup of tea but BAAEED is the nap here. NB is Aramaic 4.50 York (15/8 available most places) for a Haggas double.


    2. No-one can be ignorant of Holman Hunt’s painting, “The Light of the World”? It’s a kind of iconic cliché but it had massive public attention in the 19th century, leading to Hunt painting two other close replicas of it and a world tour. Various claims were made about the number of people who viewed it – more than three quarters of Australia’s population, for example. Had social media existed, the world would have been swamped with Christ knocking at the door. Which leads me to ask the question, “Is it a snow lantern” which Christ is carrying in the painting? There is no snow in the picture, but then there are no leaves on the trees, but there is what looks like ivy by the unopened door behind which all we unbelievers we are all meant to be hiding…

      It’s a very fine lantern, though, fully aligned with the theme beloved by the Pre-Raphaelites who lavished their artistic gifts on precious items of jewellery, rich fabrics and fabulous interiors.

      Snow Lantern, that is today’s question, at Longchamp, posed by elgransenor in the Prix de Moulin. A title perhaps a little banal (Moulin meaning mill)? Someone might know why it was so named. I am not a napper, but I may back it.

      Rouget won me my week’s betting money yesterday with Malvarossa (11/10, though SP was 2/1). So I shall probably follow DN’s Zelda and add Saiyidabad in the Prince of Orange. N.B. These are not naps, just idle fancies.


      1. ‘Light of the World’ eh, Quai?
        Whilst resisting (and I’ll regret it) Snow Lantern, I cannot resist reminding myself that there is a probably idle story that the model for the painting (Keble or Manchester version, take your pick) was Janey Morris in a false beard.
        And yes, EGS, I’m a fan of German horses – often dark and worth a flutter.


        1. As I was made to believe (Catholic catechism for schoolchildren) that we (“Man”) is made “in the image and likeness of God” it seems churlish to be concerned about a be-whiskered Janey Morris posing for Holman Hunt. I remember that one of his paintings was restored at the Manchester City Art Gallery in about 1968. During the process, restorers thought that a shadow was being cast by their lighting, but they discovered that it was the exactitude of Holman Hunt’s super realism and it was the painted shadow of a leaf… Pretty sure it was The Hireling Shepherd.

          What’s in a name, I asked a couple of days ago, as I know that many famous win bets have been based on persoanl connections and references, synchronicity and serendipity. But I can’t follow that up now as I am digging up the terrain which the moles have tirned into a version of a 1st World War Battlefield.


      2. I don’t know why the race is called Prix du Moulin… I do know that “mill “ in Italian is “Molino”or “Mulino”……

        Buona domenica to all!


        1. Grazie! Here’s the history.
          The event is named after the Moulin de Longchamp, a windmill located within the grounds of the racecourse. The mill was originally part of an abbey, (hence Prix de l’Abbaye) and its foundation stone was laid by Saint Louis in 1256. It was destroyed during the French Revolution, but reconstructed when the racecourse was built in 1856.

          The Prix du Moulin de Longchamp was one of two major races introduced to celebrate Longchamp’s centenary in 1957. Both initially took place on the first Sunday in October, the same day as the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe. The other race, the Prix de l’Abbaye de Longchamp, is still held at that meeting.
          Passez un bon dimanche…..


    3. EGS, please note an early entry for the booby prize from me yesterday, Wilde Water last to finish at Stratford. Today feels a bit “apres moi le deluge Rodders” maybe a bob or two on Suzi Smith’s at the end of the Fontwell card.


      1. I’m sure EGS will disqualify your entry on the grounds another horse was pulled up. I believe EGS’s selection of Ratib is currently leading the booby stakes this month.


        1. Simon,
          Jonathan is right.
          I have checked that this is a rare occasion that Fontwell was not hosting a Flat meeting studded with Group Races.
          It was a NH Race and last means first to leave the party.
          Null points. Better luck next time.


  2. Morning all,

    A quiet day, so just sticking to the flat at York.

    2.40 First Folio & 4.20 Arabian KIng – win singles and a double
    4.20 Can Can Girl (e/w)
    5.20 Apricot Moon (win)

    Good luck to everyone with their bets


  3. A Sunday should be a day of rest and it almost was (on the gambling front) until I see the French selections above. Will have a small dabble on DN and QDB selections. I agree that Beead looks to have a Favs chance but I’m going to side with Snow Lantern getting the weight. Sorry Rakib I’m with EGS …. Probably come last with my luck recently.

    No rest for the wicked either as I am Walking the Clyde walkway at New Lanark and up through the Falls of Clyde. Google it if you haven’t been it s a beautiful bit of the world! Maybe when I’m back my above selections will have landed. Or maybe il have seen some Peregrines swooping down the valley and my bet won’t really matter much!

    Either way Enjoy folks !


  4. My mother’s maiden name was Hunt, but I can’t claim William Holman Hunt as a distant relative as my Hunt ancestors were living in the Connach and Leinster Provinces during Victorian times.

    From the other side of the “door” in the painting my nap is PAGAN in the 14;40 at York. Having watched every episode of Bergerac recently on Britbox I may throw in a reverse forecast.


    1. That’s exaclty the sort of connection I mean, utterly irrational. It seems likely that your mother’s ancestors were Protestants as Hunt sounds an Anglo Saxon name. Elgransenor will know, I think he’s knowledgeable about Leinster. Far back on my father’s side, one of my great grandmothers was a Murray from Johnstown near Navan, Co Meath. A Catholic, I am certain, though I know nothing except her census details and marriage record from Chorley in Lancashire.


      1. Quai, they were Catholics as was my Mother and Aunt and all my 2nd cousins in Australia are. Before my mother got married, my Grandparents received a visit from the local Priest and Mother Superior, hoping to persuade them of the errors of their younger daughter marrying a Protestant. Apparently my Grandfather (born in Wexford) sent them on their way. My grandfather died a couple of years before I was born, but from what i know he had an anti-establishment streak about him. My Aunt told me a story about him from from WW2, he was in a London Pub (rather too often an occurrence unfortunately) and there were some Black American soldiers drinking there. In walked some White American soldiers and told the Landlord to get rid of the Black soldiers. Apparently my grandfather said in a loud voice (he was 5′ 5″ with a withered arm resulting from a WW1 bullet wound at Gallipoli) that the Black soldiers were welcome and the White ones were not. The other customers joined in, and the White ones left. A small gesture, but one that makes me proud of him as a human being.


        1. Jonathan and Quai,
          There are only 4 provinces in Ireland. Leinster accounts for about 40% of the total population and Connaught maybe 10%. So an ancestry search based on those 2 variables would be pointless.
          It is also unwise to guess Religion based on the surname.
          I would say (Gerry) Adams is the most ‘unIrish’ family name I have heard of yet he led a sectarian war on the side you least expect.
          I have a Norse name that few Irish people can pronounce outside the North West yet Germans and Scandis find easy.
          After my ancestors got tired of the raping and pillaging they inter-married with Christians who were possibly of Celtic ethnicity but who knows?
          There was a reasonably large migration of Anglo Normans to Ireland (The Irish Rugby Union Team is the place to see those names; Fitz this, Fitz that, De Bromhead) but the Saxons did not cross the river Tamar.
          The largest group to migrate were Scots and whilst you can tell it might be a Scottish name you cannot tell their allegiances.
          I suspect both Hunt and Murray are Scottish surnames. I am pretty sure in the latter case as Murray has Scotland all over it.
          Johnstown is pretty and would have had a large Church of Ireland community at that time but the migration to Lancashire suggests Catholic as that was very much a Catholic outlet.

          I have heard similar stories to Jonathan about the defence of Ethnic minorities in areas around US bases during WW2 when the white soldiers have drink on board.

          Finally to the Pre-Raphaelites.
          Whilst they are on display in London (Ophelia always top 3 National Fav on BBC 4 Survey) it is the new industrial revolution Cities that chime with 19th century new money and demonstrate civic pride and new franchise;
          Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester. I Could go on.


          1. I forgot the obvious.
            Longchamp has a Mill on it’s course straight out of ‘Thomas The Tank Engine’.
            The times I sang that with my son upon approaching the Mill.
            That is why it is the Prix du Moulin.
            I don’t know when that brook got covered over but Longchamp has a Moulin.


            1. Elgransenor, Thank you. Jackie Hughes covered the origin of the race’s name in an earlier post.

              On the Irish names point, thank you for that information. I am sure you are right about making assumptions about names.

              I imagine that my great grandmother was from a very poor family and emigrated to find work, etc. I suspect that most of the houses in Johnstown at that time (1850s) were just built with peat walls, etc. I can’t say I am certain that it was Johnstown, but it was Co. Meath.


        2. A family anecdote to be very proud of, Jonathan. I used to tell my students that the toughest thing to do was to stand up for principles when in a social situation. Having said that, American GIs were not that popular amongst men in the UK at that time as they had a lot more money than British soldiers and access to goods which found favour with young British women. Add the glamour factor and that was fertile ground for a sense of grievance. (Powell and Pressburger use this attitude in their film “A Canterbury Tale” where a “Glue man” uses glue to deter young women from going out…) P & P made many fine films.

          I have second (third) cousins in Australia, too, descended from my great, great uncle who emigrated to melboune in the 1870s.


  5. I have been pondering the pluses and minuses of extra places as I have been caught out several times recently by BOG not being applicable. Yesterday was a good example: I backed Nicholas T ew at 16-1 in the morning with Skybet paying 4 but it was 3rd at an SP of 28-1. I should have selected SP. Others’ thoughts on this would be interesting. As far as Nicholas T was concerned, I thought the jockey gave the horse a huge amount to do, in effect, an impossible task.


    1. A similar odds change happened at Longchamp today with a bet I had on Frenchy. I backed it at 12-1 this afternoon (no BOG as paying four places) and it won, but the SP was 22-1. I think I shall be taking SP in future with Skybet. My faith in Rouget took a hit when Wally, which was the odds on favourite and which I backed, never looked like getting anywhere in the race and hardly seemed to be able to stroll through to a win as was heavily predicted. Maybe horse off colour.


  6. Let’s try an NB EW 16 :20Y Nataleena is my pick but it is a choice between this and Master Milliner . Last night I picked my nap EY up it’s Maggie and had Bergerac in mind as well.. .. excuses made already.. anyway in the pub at Pooley Bridge having a pint in the 🌞 luverly.. Good luck with the rest of your bets this afternoon


      1. Hi as per usual didn’t do a forecast but had both covered in singles and multi .. account I
        has recovered and back in the black👍


  7. Here we go again. After a day preparing for our choir’s first in-person rehearsal in 18 months, the some painting up a ladder, I’m now settling to watching some wonderful women’s golf. In the meantime, we’ve been searching for a pearl that’s fallen out the boss’s ring; so I think Pearl Warrior is the one to kick-start September in the last at York. And thoroughly enjoyable contributions from Quai and EGS today. Much more like it.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.