Horsetalk Saturday November 13th 2021

Naps Table – A winning nap today for Gforce – Art Approval at 10/3 – nice work on a tough day, Gforce.

EGS had Bun Doran placed at a good price – 14/1 for his EW nap. Well done.

A couple of NBs in the last 48 hours that won – Major Snugfit at 10/3 for David, and Editeur Du Gite at 4/1 for Alan – nicely done, gents; shame they don’t count in the naps table!

Tough cards again today; that Paddy Power is one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Skelton horses should run well, and I wonder if Spirit of The Games might finally come good on this 2nd run after a wind op. But the one who still looks quite well in given his form here is Midnight Shadow: I’m surprised he is double figures and he will be my nap.

If Plan of Attack runs again in the 1.05, I’ll back him because he should have won on Friday, his rider having a H Skelton like rush of blood to the head and dashing up from last to about 3 lengths off the leader around 6 out – sprinted for 100 yards!

Anyway, good luck.

Betfair Naps Table

Starting November 1st 2021, Betfair have kindly agreed to provide two tickets each month to the winner of the naps table for one of their sponsored racedays.

Please post your nap each day using the comments section below this thread. All welcome. You need not post every day and can join in at any point in the month, as one big priced winner could win you the prize, which is settled on the tipster showing the biggest profit at the end the month. But, bear in mind that on days your name does not appear on the Daily Naps Results winners list, you’ll be assumed to have picked a loser.

For example, if at the end of the month your name is on the list once with a 25/1 winner, you will have your £250 profit from that nap deducted from assumed losing stakes for each other day. Assuming a 30-day month, your total stakes would be viewed as £300, returns as £260, for a loss of £40. I hope this makes sense. If you can think of a better way or a way to express this more clearly, please leave a comment below.

You need post only the horse’s name, but feel free to elaborate on your reasons for picking it.

If your selection secures a return – EW naps are allowed – please post the result in the Winners Thread stating it was your nap and mentioning the SP.

Profit will be calculated to a £10 stake on each selection. EW selections will be staked at £5EW.

All naps will be settled at SP, so please do not include an early price. This will help maintain clarity and reduce the chances of disputes. We will use standard place rules a la Tattersalls to settle EW naps. Otherwise I need to start checking place offers, non runners affecting it, etc. Doubtless some will suffer because of this, but I think it will even out in the end.

This Site

This site is open to all. It’s free and there’s no need to enrol formally, but if commenting, please choose a username when making your comment.

We discuss horse racing mostly, but have a Lounge if you want to bring up any other subject.

You are welcome to enter our Daily Naps Challenge – a fun competition for which Betfair kindly donates two Raceday tickets every month for the winner.

The rules for the site are basic: be kind to everyone, and please don’t swear. We are not prudes, but we do not have a moderator other than me – Joe McNally, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time monitoring the site. If you see something you want to report, you can do so confidentially using the Contact page.

Finally, there are some hardened and skilled tipsters here and each has their good and bad runs. When one starts a good run, it can seem to the less experienced that all prayers have been answered, and a holy grail of winners has been found. But please never make that assumption. It’s not the way things work in betting, for anyone. Sharks flogging baited tips would have you believe that this holy grail does exist. Well, there is a collective punting experience on this site numbering, I’d say, close to 500 years. Not a single tipster here will tell you that reliable profits can be made from betting racehorses.

So, this is not a mild and dutiful problem betting disclaimer. I’ve been in the business since 1971 and have seen any amount of God’s misery caused by betting beyond means. Punting is a brilliant pastime, but a horrible compulsion, a fantastic servant, but a dreadful master. Never bet more than you can afford to lose with a smile … and there’s plenty of big smiles in small stakes.

Good luck



  1. Utter Carnage for most Posters yesterday.
    I don’t want to repeat myself but you can do a good tip and even if it loses it doesn’t make it a bad tip.
    Lots of agreement yesterday so not everyone can be crazy.
    Not the best meeting at Cheltenham today to have a bet and never was and I think Bright Highway is my only ever winner in the main event but it is a tiny sample as I don’t normally bet on that Race. Too many Donald Rumsfeld known and unknown knowns.
    I might throw a quid each at Al Dancer and Lalor.
    However my nap is in the preceding Race where old friends meet.
    Just as I knew Bun Doran would come 3rd yesterday I know Sebastopol will come 3rd in the 13.40.
    Harry pointed out his impressive form figures of 2-22222. This is a Beta Male.
    Unfortunately the girl at the counter couldn’t wipe the smirk from her face when I asked for that bet and I had to stand away as the queue behind me was building up.
    I am therefore napping him win only at an SP that should be 14/1.


    1. I missed the topical tip of Belargus in the 14.15. at Cheltenham at 33/1 which is only a couple of letters away from you know where.
      I normally spot that thing.
      Anyway as a Cards Player I know you never renege and I am hooked with Sebastopol.


        1. The winner shows that whilst you might get Third Time Lucki it might not be possible to be 6th or 7th Time Lucki for this gentle soul who just likes to follow the leader.
          I expect he is happy right now eating mash and never had the self entitled expectation to come 1st like some of his Peers.
          Who would be a Horse Psychologist?
          Esherhammer from the Church from which you are excommunicated did the forecast.
          I thought he only bet at Sandown.
          Was doing a forecast with Sebastopol in 2nd not buying money?
          Will it remain buying money?
          I naturally didn’t and I was clear that the 25/1 was SP win only.
          That seems like a lack of Justice in my ambition to win this Novender nap competition but it is written down in black and white and red all over (I know you are tired of these Newcastle stale jokes)
          And what has justice got to do with any financial investment (sorry)?
          I only realised after your tip for Sebastopol to beat the recently over raced Mick Pastor that I had personal connections to him.
          Not the obvious Sire who is Fame and Glory (and the Horse Psychologist may need to discuss the Father’s name with Sebastopol) but the Dam who is called Knockcroghery.
          My Profession has led me to be a wandering soul and in a 6 month job in Roscommon Town I chose to live in the reasonably pretty Knockcroghery (20 mins. away) which has a cement pier to a nice lake that I fished from.
          I couldn’t fight off the Kamikaze Perch even though I never sought to catch them.


          1. I’m not happy when historic venues change their name:
            Mallow to Cork
            Limerick Junction to Limerick
            Devon and Exeter to Exeter
            Edinburgh to Musselburgh

            And in football, whither Third Lanark? Port Glasgow Athletic? Gretna? Belfast Celtic? New Brighton Tower? Abergavenny Thursdays?

            All gone.


            1. I think changing the name of Accrington who were original founders of the Football League to Accrington Stanley 6 years later was a good idea as any young boy would have missed out badly if they couldn’t say Accrington Stanley with the relish it deserves.
              Don’t get me going on the history of Cork Racecourse as like all Guardian Readers I do local history that even Bill Gates can’t access.
              When I say local I mean very local as I can see the site of the original Cork Racecourse a 100 yards from my front window and have even done a local history walking tour on the original site.
              That is how Guardian I am.
              It closed in 1919 under site pressure from a relatively late Cork industrialisation process on the Docklands in particular the Ford Motor Company who had lots of clout.
              There was a 5 year hiatus before Mallow Racecourse opened in 1924.
              Nobody who lives in the City has ever been tricked in to believing they are visiting Cork Racecourse when they know it is Mallow and are armed with flasks and sandwiches and are never sure of local acceptance.
              The opening day of the original Cork Racecourse in front of my window was comical.
              The River Lee flooded. The Racecourse was under water.
              The officials wanted to call off the meeting not because of animal welfare but the possible indignified state of the Victorian Lady’s low dresses in a swamp.
              Heavy Hitters were coming in from Waterford on the train and bets couldn’t be cancelled so the meeting couldn’t be abandoned.
              I have never asked why the Heavy Hitters were from Waterford and not Dublin or what happened to the Horses welfare but local history is an organic thing.


              1. Superb, evocative post. Frank O’Connor couldn’t do it better.

                My sister moved into a house that backed onto Alexandra Park in the seventies, shortly after the famous old frying-pan course closed (so called because of its peculiar lay-out. You could still see the running rails and the notoriously firm turf tack was still in good shape. Sadly the old Victorian grandstand had vanished, leaving the majestic ocean liner that is Alexandra Palace to look down over the scene with its immense mast that used to send those pioneering pre-war BBC programmes out across the dark skies. They used to have Monday night meetings in summer, much like Windsor does now, and very attractive they must have been with the nearby railway station, easy for the London spivs and their dolls to come and have a drink and splash the cash in the warm night air. If you strained your ears you could almost hear the PA announcing “Horses away”, “Weighed in” and “In the third race, no. 3 will now be ridden by J. Lindley.” Thankfully the palimpsest of the old race track hasn’t disappeared under the sort of “executive” housing which is planned for Kempton Park.


                1. The ex- Ally Pally is haunted.
                  I lived in Archway for a year and I sometimes heard those announcements when I took a drive up there even though this was the 90s.
                  I don’t know why I even took a drive there but maybe there was no other way to clear my head in walking distance.
                  The Primary School where Frank O’Connor was educated is actually within 50 yards of where I live and has some impressive alumni.
                  When I moved back to Cork from London I had to decide where to educate my son and of course put him in the most plebeian School I could find despite the extra walking distance as that is what Lefties do.


  2. Having had a good look at cheltenham card it goes without saying that the skeltons have a serious hand to play today.
    I think they could really have it off –
    Third time lucki
    Unexpected party
    4 very solid chances – I think I’ve found myself a fun lucky 15 for the day …. Lets Hope Harry is on top form !


  3. £88 million up for grabs on Euromillions so I bought a lucky dip and woke to an email that proclaimed ‘Good News’ that I had won……….. £2.80p! I know I’m a miserable grumpy old scrote but I don’t particularly buy that as good news. Its going to be one of those days I can see. Lots of outsiders today. The good doctor has some interesting runners but I’ll get the choice over with early:
    Nap 1230 Chelt Caramelised
    Appropriate for a sticky punting day


    1. Also hate that when you get an email only to find in the excitement that yippee…you’ve won a lucky dip….and why don’t they tell you what your lucky dip numbers are…go into a shop buy a lucky dip and you get numbers….rant over…feel better now


    2. That is frustrating.
      Whenever I win a raffle it is some low value voucher for a shop I wouldn’t be seen dead in that I send back to be-raffled whilst other people are winning nice Food Hampers.
      On the plus side you won’t have to beg for the bus ride home today.
      Why not use the £2.80 on a spectacular Moida style Acca that will yield 88 million today?
      That email may have been a sign.
      The trouble is your Bookie will never pay out.


  4. A couple I’m backing have already been mentioned, so I’ll go for something different (and possibly safer):
    NAP Little River Boy 2.42 Utt


  5. As much as I respect old red nose and his horse Protektorat in the Paddy Power Gold Cup, I am selecting GALAHAD QUEST in my journey for the Holy Nap. (Cheltenham 14:15).


    1. I have always thought that your selection has always been in search of his father. Surely it must be Camelot? Wrong – a beast called American post handed on his genes. So the search for his True Father goes on.


      1. Harry, my lack of a decent education has ensured my knowledge of the Arthurian Legend is pretty shallow, but the education I did receive has enabled me to notice that Lady Excalibur running in the last at Cheltenham is a daughter of Camelot.


  6. Quick one before the rugbyvstarrs.
    Nap, Al Dancer, 2.15, with EW treble with Ballymillsy (for NTD to get his customary winner), 2.50 and Gowel Road 3.35


  7. I’ve backed Midnight Shadow, but the more I look at Spirit Of The Games the more I think he’s an awful big price. His top 5 performances by Racing Post Rating were at Cheltenham. He’s run 10 times there, always to form bar a PU. 20/1 EW to 7 places with Skybet has to be taken.


  8. I don’t think Wetherby is quite the track it once was, but try telling that to Fransham! He’s five for seven there now. A creature of habit.


  9. That was a nail biter! Thought Midnight Shadow was going go down at the last…
    Only a small EW double on Knight Salute and Midnight Shadow, but a great start to the day. Thank you very much gentlemen for your suggestions 😀


  10. Where did my last post go?! Anyway, it was a thank you for suggestions of Knight Salute and Midnight Shadow, which I had in a small EW double. Head in hands at the last, but he made it! Thank you gentleman


  11. I wish I’d done the same. Took a decent bet before the off on Protektorat. EW so it’s money back.
    Thought I may just get there but wasn’t to be! Great race though !
    Nice double up Luke
    Also well done Joe on picking the winner !


  12. The horse I felt sorriest for today was the Last Lion ( 3.05 Ling) – send to Stud several years ago returns to track today as a 7 year old Gelding….its a tough old game.


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