Horsetalk Tuesday November 23rd 2021

Rob J’s recent run of form continues and he’s the only winning Napster yesterday with 11/8 chance Dreams Of Home – well done, Rob.

Betfair Naps Table

Starting November 1st 2021, Betfair have kindly agreed to provide two tickets each month to the winner of the naps table for one of their sponsored racedays.

Please post your nap each day using the comments section below this thread. All welcome. You need not post every day and can join in at any point in the month, as one big priced winner could win you the prize, which is settled on the tipster showing the biggest profit at the end the month. But, bear in mind that on days your name does not appear on the Daily Naps Results winners list, you’ll be assumed to have picked a loser.

For example, if at the end of the month your name is on the list once with a 25/1 winner, you will have your £250 profit from that nap deducted from assumed losing stakes for each other day. Assuming a 30-day month, your total stakes would be viewed as £300, returns as £260, for a loss of £40. I hope this makes sense. If you can think of a better way or a way to express this more clearly, please leave a comment below.

You need post only the horse’s name, but feel free to elaborate on your reasons for picking it.

If your selection secures a return – EW naps are allowed – please post the result in the Winners Thread stating it was your nap and mentioning the SP. Non runners will be settled as a break even day.

Profit will be calculated to a £10 stake on each selection. EW selections will be staked at £5EW.

All naps will be settled at SP, so please do not include an early price. This will help maintain clarity and reduce the chances of disputes. We will use standard place rules a la Tattersalls to settle EW naps. Otherwise I need to start checking place offers, non runners affecting it, etc. Doubtless some will suffer because of this, but I think it will even out in the end.

This Site

This site is open to all. It’s free and there’s no need to enrol formally, but if commenting, please choose a username when making your comment.

We discuss horse racing mostly, but have a Lounge if you want to bring up any other subject.

You are welcome to enter our Daily Naps Challenge – a fun competition for which Betfair kindly donates two Raceday tickets every month for the winner.

The rules for the site are basic: be kind to everyone, and please don’t swear. We are not prudes, but we do not have a moderator other than me – Joe McNally, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time monitoring the site. If you see something you want to report, you can do so confidentially using the Contact page.

Finally, there are some hardened and skilled tipsters here and each has their good and bad runs. When one starts a good run, it can seem to the less experienced that all prayers have been answered, and a holy grail of winners has been found. But please never make that assumption. It’s not the way things work in betting, for anyone. Sharks flogging baited tips would have you believe that this holy grail does exist. Well, there is a collective punting experience on this site numbering, I’d say, close to 500 years. Not a single tipster here will tell you that reliable profits can be made from betting racehorses.

So, this is not a mild and dutiful problem betting disclaimer. I’ve been in the business since 1971 and have seen any amount of God’s misery caused by betting beyond means. Punting is a brilliant pastime, but a horrible compulsion, a fantastic servant, but a dreadful master. Never bet more than you can afford to lose with a smile … and there’s plenty of big smiles in small stakes.

Good luck



  1. 🐲 The dragons keep being slain alas so will try a gentleman double (around 4/1 currently): Gentleman Joe (nap)- Punch. 1 o’clock. for the dream team and He’s a Gentleman, Wolves 5 o’clock -Greg Wood’s nb’d it so I will too. The treble is Eklat de Rire in the big race on Saturday (6/1, antepost) .


    1. Rakib is your ‘try a gentleman’s double’ a codified recommendation?? A ‘suck a fisherman’s friend’ de nos journey???


      1. All life is a code I suppose, Mr T .. Not sure why I put 4/1 -that was code for 8/1 but it’s now been backed into a less tempting 5/1. Or more for those who like to double down!


  2. In my coupon might be Tarroob trained by the estimable WJ. Haggas in the listed 15.45 at Deauville and Frontal Assault in the 12.00 at Punchestown trained by the non-estimable.
    My nap is at long odds as even though I am running away with this November’s Nap Competition I want to do a victory lap early and concentrate on my December Bets.
    It is Dromod Lad who trades around 80/1 in the 13.35 at Punchestown.
    Dromod is a Vilage in Leitrim that bisects the 2 Parishes of Annaduff where I grew up and Barnacoola who were always able to bully us off the pitch even though their land was as bad as ours and it couldn’t have better food that beefed up their muscles.
    Maybe, Genetics were at play.
    As I am technically a Dromod Lad I can tell you to ignore all market moves in that Horses historical Races.
    Everything swung on whether I decided to bet 1 or 2 Euros.
    At least I felt self-important in deciding the SP of a Horse.
    Anyhow, that is my e.w. nap


    1. You can tell so much about the Irish regard for horses from the way the name them. Racing is so embedded in the culture so it is obvious that a horse name should relate to the land, the landscape and the people who live and work in it. I enjoy your thumbnail sketches of villages and parishes with connection to you and your family evoked by a horse’s name. Dromod, Annaduff, Leitrim, Barnacoola – it sounds like a wonderful itinerary for a traveller. The best horse names that evoke place that I can offer you from this side of the water id Near Kettering. Oh, and Teescomponents Lad. Not on the same level, is it.

      I exempt Mrs Magnier from this admiration, though. I find that her names tend to overreach themselves (as do some of Godolphin’s). When you name a horse New York City or United Nations or River Thames, it raises expectations that are very hard to meet. Admiral Nelson, Giovanni Bellini or Emily Dickinson – you expect the best, don’t you.

      Dromod Lad may not be Arkle, but at least he brings to mind your salad days.


      1. One UK trainer who does have one or two is Yorkshire’s very own Braveheat. His Scottish roots lead to horses named Achnamara and Annandale. His local roots lead to Headingley and Out in Yorkshire. There is also a Watersmeet.
        Jonjo has Halifax, probably closely related to Hull and Hell.

        Agree on Mrs Magnier, she can conjure up some beauties, then at times, as you point out, the names turn out to be an embarrassing burden.

        Unfortunately, I cannot register Dragon Slayer as it is already taken.


        1. Mrs Magnier reserves names in bulk (which stops anyone else using them, of course) and doesn’t select names according to the horse’s breeding or its character, as you or I might do with our child or our horse. She has other considerations such as flaunting her intellectual tastes and predilections. You could not see a horse with a name like Wiki Wiki Wheels or Hellcatmudwrestler gracing the gallops at Ballydoyle, could you.


          1. Yes, the pretension is clearly visible. If there was a degree of humour I would like to see The Lads Will Know What To Do going clear in the final furlong in the Derby.


    2. Lived in Fenagh for a while so know the area well . I think we have mentioned before that there is no better writer on the area than John McGahern possibly Ireland’s best novelist of the mid 20th century


      1. Tony,
        Fenagh has good attention paid to it’s Abbey by the OPW and where my Grandfather’s brother moved to. His only son died suddenly intestate with a large farm outside Fenagh and I was reckoned to be the immediate legatee but sadly not.
        McGahern was a close friend of my nearest neighbour so I once met him. He was what you expect.
        I disagree with the criticism of the overall naming by Sue Magnier.
        I do think flat Horses should have aspirational names.
        I think Sue is right to look for classic sources of names and cannot fathom what makes her call a Horse New York City or Was.
        She is from an incredibly aspirational North Cork Paternal background whereby Vincent sent his children to top fee paying Schools in England like Ampleforth for David and Charles (although I can’t verify where Sue was educated).
        Overall she gets more Horse names right than wrong.


      1. Very carefully. He must be one of the best salesmen on the planet, able to sell the underpants you’re wearing back to you. And you’d be happy with that, just for the privilege!


    1. I wouldn’t know the numbers in training at any one time, but it’s a lot. Some are in the barn and plenty of others are in the paddocks at other stages of development. He and the Doyle brothers of Monbeg are the leading buyers of foals and stores with jumps pedigrees and a large proportion of those find their way into NH yards both side of the Irish Sea via auctions. Of those a good few have won or been placed in a 4yo maiden PTP. But the name Bowe is a mark of quality that British buyers in particular trust, and trainers here like to drop his name in conversation with the media because it is one of the few that is known to the wider racing public. The business model for Bowe, the Doyles and other leading producers was seriously disrupted by the protracted PTP shutdown last season, so they were stuck with scores of unraced stock which couldn’t go to auction. Some of them eventually made it to the racecourse in late spring bumpers in Ireland and then went to the sales this autumn. Others that would have run in the spring of the fourth year had to wait to this autumn’s round of 4yo maidens to make their debuts, after another summer of growing and maturing, which will have done them no harm at all. Horses that make their point debut at five or older have usually had a physical issue which has delayed their progress, which is something to be aware of.

      (Colin Bowe has run 65 horses in the current PTP season (started 30 Oct) and has had 13 winners.)


        1. Thanks as ever for filling me in Harry. CB looked to have left plenty to work on with that one, Hughsie earned his money as they say!


          1. A fine ride indeed. That horse need a trip and much softer ground so he must be a good prospect to win there. He was pulling double when he fell in his point on a very testing surface. It’s about time Nicky had a novice hurdle winner – Donald McCain has been farming them this autumn in the north.


  3. EW Nap is Daglish in the 17:00 Wolves… there is a coincidental association as the Liverpool Echo for some unfathomable reason have chosen to nap the same one.


  4. Anyone see the 12.30 at Punch? I think we have just witnessed the first signs of another Ronan McNally improver. The 6yo mare All Class has already run in everything from 7f flat maidens to 2m handicap hurdles. (Older readers might remember she was the subject of some official interest when winning a flat handicap at Navan having been backed from 66/1 to 9/2. It then emerged that though trained by David Dunne she was in fact leased by Mr. R McNally. Small world?) Today she had a crack at a 3m1f handicap chase and won by 23 lengths; the cash was down. You can expect McNally to switch her between hurdles and chases to exploit her mark now. Let the entertainment begin!

    Interesting footnote: four McManus horses ran in this race and they finished 8th, 9th 10th and 11th at 22/1, 40/1, 28/1 and 50/1 respectively. Just another day at the office.


    1. All 4 of JP’s….”no impression from 5 out, never a factor” as per…..synchronized macmanusing…..


    2. That expression the MONEY IS DOWN haunts me as 8f everyone knows something secretive.
      Im just mad as i not getting winners.
      I might start backing DOGS.


    3. I was going out with girl in kildare whos sister workef for john ox i thought i waz going to be millionaire.
      Then my sister had pub beside coolmore in killenaule MORE disaster.
      I need to go back to puntinguniversity.
      Went for a first walk today after crash my left hock is stiff..ok


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