Horsetalk Sunday December 12th 2021

Naps Table Update

A storming nap for El Gran Senor in the ultra game Coole Cody at 12/1 EW – very well done, and a solid winner for Rob J in Stag Horn at 4/5: fine work, gents, well done.

Naps Allowed

A slight alteration to the original rules in that selections will now be singles only, though EW is still allowed. Still SP only and still standard place terms. Again, this will not suit all, but it applies across the board, which is the important thing.

Debates – Site Rules

Things got understandably heated in the last 24 hours in the comments section, but, commendably, there was no bad language. As much as I like peace and quiet and kindness, disagreements are inevitable and must have their place. All I ask is that you always play the ball and not the man. Here is an example of what I mean:

“I think that you are appalling and you’re a fool” UNACCEPTABLE

“I think that your views on this are appalling and foolish” ACCEPTABLE

In the first an individual is being castigated in person; in the second the individual’s views (separate from character and personality) are being castigated in this instance. This is acceptable because it is much more accurate, especially when ‘your views on this‘ is used – remarks on another subject by the same person you might well agree with in full.

Anyway, I don’t want to labour this. You know what I mean and I will moderate based on this in future.

Betfair Naps Table

Starting November 1st 2021, Betfair have kindly agreed to provide two tickets each month to the winner of the naps table for one of their sponsored racedays.

Please post your nap each day using the comments section below this thread. All welcome. You need not post every day and can join in at any point in the month, as one big priced winner could win you the prize, which is settled on the tipster showing the biggest profit at the end the month. But, bear in mind that on days your name does not appear on the Daily Naps Results winners list, you’ll be assumed to have picked a loser.

For example, if at the end of the month your name is on the list once with a 25/1 winner, you will have your £250 profit from that nap deducted from assumed losing stakes for each other day. Assuming a 30-day month, your total stakes would be viewed as £300, returns as £260, for a loss of £40. I hope this makes sense. If you can think of a better way or a way to express this more clearly, please leave a comment below.

You need post only the horse’s name, but feel free to elaborate on your reasons for picking it.

If your selection secures a return – EW naps are allowed – please post the result in the Winners Thread stating it was your nap and mentioning the SP. Non runners will be settled as a break even day.

Profit will be calculated to a £10 stake on each selection. EW selections will be staked at £5EW.

All naps will be settled at SP, so please do not include an early price. This will help maintain clarity and reduce the chances of disputes. We will use standard place rules a la Tattersalls to settle EW naps. Otherwise I need to start checking place offers, non runners affecting it, etc. Doubtless some will suffer because of this, but I think it will even out in the end.

This Site

This site is open to all. It’s free and there’s no need to enrol formally, but if commenting, please choose a username when making your comment.

We discuss horse racing mostly, but have a Lounge if you want to bring up any other subject.

You are welcome to enter our Daily Naps Challenge – a fun competition for which Betfair kindly donates two Raceday tickets every month for the winner.

The rules for the site are basic: be kind to everyone, and please don’t swear. We are not prudes, but we do not have a moderator other than me – Joe McNally, and I don’t want to spend a lot of time monitoring the site. If you see something you want to report, you can do so confidentially using the Contact page. Play the man and not the ball, by which I mean you can castigate heavily someone’s point of view, but do not castigate the poster personally.

Finally, there are some hardened and skilled tipsters here and each has their good and bad runs. When one starts a good run, it can seem to the less experienced that all prayers have been answered, and a holy grail of winners has been found. But please never make that assumption. It’s not the way things work in betting, for anyone. Sharks flogging baited tips would have you believe that this holy grail does exist. Well, there is a collective punting experience on this site numbering, I’d say, close to 500 years. Not a single tipster here will tell you that reliable profits can be made from betting racehorses.

So, this is not a mild and dutiful problem betting disclaimer. I’ve been in the business since 1971 and have seen any amount of God’s misery caused by betting beyond means. Punting is a brilliant pastime, but a horrible compulsion, a fantastic servant, but a dreadful master. Never bet more than you can afford to lose with a smile … and there’s plenty of big smiles in small stakes.

Good luck



    1. Mea culpa, Joe. I’ve been asked a number of times why I never entered politics. Yesterday maybe showed why. Apologies to all who maybe thought I went a bit over the top.


  1. The early bird catches the worm and I always like to rise early for the HK meeting tomorrow.
    You have to give credit to APOB for sending both Mogul and Bolshoi Ballet who have simply no NH Stallion Rotas open to them as they are Galileos and need to simply earn money as well as Mother Earth who is having her 11th Race since May.
    Actually it is not just her 11th Race. It is her 11th Group 1 since May. Respect.
    Whilst I will be supporting those I have to look elsewhere for my nap.
    I will do e.w. doubles on Ebaiyra (not far from an anagram of Early Bird) who is attracting money, Mac Swinney (around 18/1) and the ex- Ballydoyle Russian Emperor (around 33/1).
    Ebaiyra is my nap in the 8.30 at Sha Tin.


    1. You read my mind exactly about hk.
      There is 1 MHEMAS running in hk he was renamed after his time in IRELAND strange chadwick is riding i cant remember but Powers not accepting bet. Jeeez up that early


    2. I went back to Boyle first time in 30 days the tannoy blaring to bet on norwich m utd i could not bear it.
      Dunno why as no one there..
      They killing the punters..


  2. Racing at Carlisle tomorrow and the 13:40 is the “Secret Garden Restaurant Pooley Bridge Handicap Chase”.. where I took Mel, the other half for a birthday treat in September, very good..The nap is Well Above Par in said race.


  3. Robicheaux7 genuinely didn’t realise I’d gone against you in the 2:10 there but I think that bodes well for you as I think I did something similar a few days back and yours won


    1. I wouldn’t think so Jamie. Yours is on the upgrade. Mine, whilst well handicapped. Has seen better days.
      We’ll find out soon enough.


  4. The Dunne bullying verdict will hopefully not fade too far into the background nor the PJA’S pretty hopeless response. Today Paul Struthers put right his associations unwillingness to concede Dunne being found guilty of bullying. Up to now including an interview on itv with him the only admission made was BF felt bullied. This is important, it clearly shows favouritism for Dunne by the association before and after the verdict. Worse it shows the opposite attitude toward Bryony was in place. That is a shocking failure by a trade union body leaving them open to investigation. The principle of support for all members equally was broken. It must have made her life intolerable. I would repeat my thoughts that is little point in the pja at this moment. One other thought I have concerns Dunne being able to attend race meetings during this suspension. He made himself very visible at Cheltenham something that smacked of arrogance and a complete lack of humility. Frost was riding at Doncaster but will still have seen him on tv. It was a provocation aimed at her. That situation needs to be addressed. This was a very personal very nasty sustained period of bullying with verbal abuse at its worse. Hopefully no-one forget will forget that. I’m sure she wants to move on however i would query by appeal why Dunne is not banned from attending race meetings at this time


    1. Excellent analysis of the misrepresentation of the word “rancid” which has been run away with by the PJA and jockeys. It was hypothetical argument. If the language used in the weighing room was normal as the jockeys said, then it would be a rancid culture.
      PJA now on the back foot having to do damage limitation.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Nap Croagh Patrick 12.15S
    A 2,500ft mountain in County Mayo that some pilgrims climb barefoot – I think when I visited a few years back some did it on their hands and knees too (though I may have the wrong mountain).

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Well done EGS. I watched the race on catch up and was saddened 2 had come out as I thought it would put the skids under my 5th place with Sky, but it didn’t, so well done and thanks to them. I’d missed the 50s and took 33s. I have to admit I’m never particularly sure how non-runners affect my bets like this. I really should pay more attention.
    Nap Southwell 1455 Sayadam
    There seems to be quite a few side issues developing from the Dunne/Frost case eg the valets who refused to help Bryony. From the outside that looks like a failure to do their job and both of them and their boss should be sacked for allowing this to happen. In all jobs there are times when you don’t want to do something, well tough, get on with it! I wouldn’t be giving McCoy any more tv work either for the stance he has seemingly taken. Certainly unbecoming of a knight of the realm. Plunkett said that things were improving for conditionals through the use of mentors, which is probably correct but would you want Fitzgerald looking after you? He’s on the board of the PJA and then on tv distanced himself from the weighing room by saying it was 19 years since he’d been in there so didn’t know what was going on. Really? How does that stack up? There are too many claiming to be innocent bystanders especially in there.
    I agree with Michael’s observations about Dunne above. If anyone saw Paul Hayward on TML he was spot on too. Again this is from the outside and I originally thought the ‘rancid’ depiction was overly harsh but the more I see and hear, then I’m getting to believe it is an accurate depiction.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Nap: Peltwell 2.25 Southwell…her winning run (like Hamilton’s) has to come to an end eventually, hopefully (like Hamilton again) that’s not today! So far so good f1-wise, Lewis surprisingly took the lead with the less grippy tyre, and perhaps fortunate not to have to give the place back later that lap with the laissez-faire stewarding (I thought it was 60-40 in Max’s favour that time)…Red Bull reaping what they’ve sowed there.


    1. Peltwell seems to be improving still so not sure the eight-timer will be out of the question! Almost simultaneously, in F1 world, some rancid off-the-cuff rule-making during the safety car did for Lewis’ chances of the 8th title. To be fair to Max he kept the racing clean this time and is not an unworthy champion. Roll on 2022…


      1. Well done on Peltwell.
        The three of us watching the grand prix all felt that ending was unfair – under the safety car, saying none will pass, but then letting 5 go through in the last few seconds before the restart. It doesn’t make it right, but seemed like Hamilton should have been made to give up the place early on. As you say, Max raced fair today and it has been a very good season.


        1. Thanks Luke. It just wasn’t a fair fight that ‘mini-race’ at the end the race director seemingly wanted…there were similar schmozzles from Masi in the last race but he got away with them. This time it could end in the courts, sadly, and you can excuse Mercedes pursuing it that far given the eye-watering sums of money required in going for titles.


        2. I don’t watch F1. I heard all the hype about it being the greatest season ever and greatest end to the season. I tuned in. Well I think professional wrestling conceals its fixed fights with far more professionalism than that fix. May as well have put a stinger across the track in front of Hamilton. Cooking up a bizarre set of requiremnts that essentially left Verstappen on fresh tyres and Hamilton on his old ones when Hmailton had led the race from start to finish. Last time I look at F1. Public perception = it’s a fix. Now Mercedes is contesting the result, Ideal.


          1. Totally agree.
            Let Petrolheads fight it among themselves about that result.
            I try to avoid most News Stories and don’t do Social Media but
            why are Mercedes and Red Bull I am more of?
            Bad Publicity =Good Publicity.
            Thank god it’s not Racing.


            1. I’m very far from being a ‘petrolhead’ egs haha – I’ve never even learned to drive! When I attend the Xmas meeting at Kempton (Covid and further government-incompetence permitting) I’ll be making my way by good old public transport. Similarly I don’t ride horses (I’m not a hoof-head) but I find enjoyment in watching them doing their thing. Not all the elements in racing are savoury, ahem, but still I try to engage positively with the sport . I’m not your typical internet person where things are black and white, my way or the high way- there’s good and bad in all things as we’ve seen in these and other sports recently – it is surely foolish to pretend otherwise. In an alternate universe I’m sure there are wars fought over the results of tiddlywinks contests – ’tis human nature.


  8. I intended to say no more about Dunne /Frost, but having just watched Nick Luck interviewing Struthers more needs to be said.. In no way have the pja accepted Bryony was bullied nor are they accepting the process was fair. To say Paul Struthers was uncomfortable would be a massive understatement, every answer spoken through gritted teeth after considerable delay to the obvious frustration of NL.
    What has clearly upset the pja is the complaint going straight to the BHA bypassing them completely. An obvious message of mistrust, we of course know why now. Something else I find inexplicable is the lack of a code of conduct being in place. They quickly rectified that but its voluntary. So who drew that up and how and if it’s not a legal document what is the point. The Bha are introducing a comprehensive document that will lay down a code of conduct across the whole industry and will be legally binding. Quite what sort of set up the pja is and was is baffling to me. It was suggested he may appeal, I hope he does, he will lose. Ruby Walsh got it right, someone needs to stand up and tell Dunne enough is enough.


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